Colour Code's Hannah Sung on why we can't be smug about racism in Canada

Canadians tend to feel superior about our multicultural wonderland and progressive-minded PM, particularly as we observe the overt racial discrimination promoted by Donald Trump and some of his supporters. But on Monday, Toronto residents encountered posters marked "Hey, White Person," taped to hydro polls, inviting anyone who isn’t into multiculturalism to join the “alt-right” movement and preserve the nation’s whiteness. And on Tuesday, a rabbi in Ottawa woke up to find a swastika spray painted on her door. The incidents appear to be connected to white-supremacy sentiments that surfaced following Trump's victory. They also bring an additional sense of urgency to a new episode of the Globe and Mail's podcast Colour Code, a conversation about race in Canada. Hosts Denise Balkissoon and Hannah Sung recently wrapped a story about hate crimes, exploring the consequences of violence in small Ontario town 10 years ago. Here, Chatelaine talks to Sung about diving into uncomfortable conversations, the impact of Trump north of the border and why we shouldn't feel quite so smug.

What made you create a podcast about race in Canada?

Both Denise and I were interested in this kind of thing, and once you start to see the world through the lens of race, you just think critically about what race means. There's also an energy out there right now — a conversation that’s ongoing on Twitter. That was really inspiring to us, like, "Hey, we see all these conversations happening, yet mainstream media doesn’t seem to be tapped in." Although, I would say that’s totally different now. It’s been almost a year that we’ve been working on the podcast, and race issues are definitely in people’s consciousnesses in a way that they weren’t even a year ago.

What kinds of conversations were you hoping to have?

Very honest and real conversations. I knew that meant having uncomfortable conversations. I think both Denise and I went into this a little bit blithely, like, “this is gonna get uncomfortable.” But then it actually did. It’s hard, actually. Whenever it got hard for me personally, I would think, "This is what I’m asking people to do, both as participants in our conversation and as listeners. I need to make sure that I’m ready to get uncomfortable myself.”

Some people in Canada like to think we’re insulated from race issues, compared to the U.S. But your episode about hate crimes feels frighteningly on point because of this week’s headlines. Are you surprised?

There’s a part of me that's consistently surprised when I hear about racist incidents in Canada. I think it’s just my mental training, my upbringing and my feelings towards — and my knowledge of — this country. Of course the other side of me is not surprised. You see this kind of thing literally all the time. It’s just not necessarily above ground and widely discussed. I don’t even think going from a racist past to a more equitable future is a linear thing. In the research for this podcast, I learned about the history of the KKK in Canada. I learned about racist immigration policies in Canada and how new this idea of multiculturalism really is, relatively speaking, and how fragile it is and how easily we can slip back into white supremacy, which is what we’re seeing.

The beast can be awakened, so to speak.

There’s already a foundation of it in our country. I think we can see it in Conservative leadership candidate Kellie Leitch — she obviously believes in the political value of what people like to call “dog whistle politics.” She or Trump would only do that if they saw something to be gained and that people already have those ideas.

After Trump’s election, people in Canada immediately said "we can’t be smug." Did you expect that?

I think we saw some pretty ugly politics just one year ago. People are still smarting from the barbaric cultural practices line. People do have that in their very recent memory.

Do you think Trump’s victory will change how we think and talk about race here?

I don’t know, but I feel that when it comes to race specifically, ideas don’t stop at the border. In fact, we’re all very aware of how porous our borders are — we always talk about how our pop culture comes from the States. So far, Trump has never been a politician, all he’s been to us is a pop culture figure. All of his ideas are extremely transferable and that’s very scary.

Colour Code, which unfortunately ends after your next episode, has felt like the first sustained conversation about race in Canadian mainstream media. What would you like to see more of?

We’re nowhere close to having a truly inclusive media in Canada. True inclusivity isn't even about skin colour. It’s about experiences and politics and socioeconomic backgrounds and the way people think. If the whole point is to be relevant, Canadian media has some soul searching to do in terms of asking "Who’s in our newsrooms?"

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity and length.

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